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Originally Posted by Karloff70  Ditto! I think Mick Jagger once said something along the lines of that he used to run home with his first singles and play them again and again, trying to work out what the vocal was saying. And that it was part of the fun, and if he'd understood everything the first time it would have ruined it......
I like to 'feel' a vocal more than anything else.....who can make out all the lyric on a (=any) Radiohead track without the lyric sheet??
Make it sit the way YOU like it geezer....  |
Exactly... I have listened to Radiohead tracks time and time again to try and figure out some of the lyrics... I could just search on google, but **** that... It's not as much fun. I only do that if I am gonna cover a song.
Other good examples like Yorke, Stipe, Isaac Brock, and such, who cannot be understood no matter where the vocal sits is Dave Matthews. I heard a story from Carter where he said for years he would be singing the wrong back up words to lots of the songs, because he couldn't even understand what Dave was singing. Dave then chimed in and said HE didn't even know what he was signing half the time (as a joke to refer to him constantly forgetting and changing lyrics).
I think at the end of the day it depends on the song. Is the vocal supposed to be the main focus? I find in slower songs IE a Ryan Adams tune or something with a soft vocal, it is perfect to put it up front... It can give you that chills down your spine effect when they milk certain notes... But on other songs/artists the vocal is more of an instrument than a delivery device for words IE Radiohead... In that case place it where it sits naturally.
I find with my own vocals I have one of those voices where it is impossible to hear what the hell I am saying... I find it interesting, because younger crowds don't seem to care... While the 40+ crowd seems to make a constant complaint... I will get constantly from them "I love the music and your voice, but I can't understand a word you are saying! You need to annuciate more!" Upon which I tell them they have no idea what they are talking about, and it's not the point to understand it clearly... They look at me with A LOT of confussion after I tell them that.
Overall, I think you should place it where it feels right. I spent about 2-3 years in Nashville, so I am sick of the "mixing around the vocal" attitude everyone has there... Screw that! I always mix the vocal last. Otherwise it will never fit right for me... I end up catering too much to vocal and forget that this is music I am mixing, not a f'ing commercial or TV Show... The MUSIC is the important part, and the instruments are just as (if not more) important than the vocal. This doesn't matter if the lyric is brilliant or not...
Which brings me to one last point... I think what kills me the most about this over-emphasis on placing vocals up front is that the songs that do it tend to have the worst lyrics... So I sit there shaking my head going.. "I would be trying to HIDE that, not emphasize it!"
-Grant