[StephenMarsh]

I generally don't mess with effects in the mastering environment for numerous reasons - chief among then being

1) I don't deal with dialing in reverbs all that much and I assume leave that to those that do (ie: Mixers)
2) Mastering rooms are tuned differently and time-based effects react differently in that environment, making it a less than ideal place to judge such a thing - opinions on how much reverb you like vary greatly and the mastering room can sometimes throw people into adding too little or too much.

Getting back to the initial question raised - IMHO - it's not quite as simple a question as "is it redundant or not". So many factors come into play with compression in mastering. In general - I don't mind if a good engineer with good ears uses a little buss compression to pick up a mix - a lot of guys have gotten used to mixing into a buss comp and the last thing I want to do is take a mixer our of their comfort zone. That said - there are a lot of folks out there that take this a little (or a lot) too far with regularity. I get comments like "I hit the L2 a little on the buss, I hope that's OK - it's only like 5 or 6 dB!!!" - Now - On a guitar track - 5 or 6 dB on an L2 may sound great - but on a mix - that's a TON of buss compression for a mixdown and certainly not what I would classify as "A Little". So there's both side to that scenario. If I'm speaking with a client that I think may be crushing to the point that I won't be able to master their project properly - I just ask for two mixes - print me one with and one without whatever may be on the buss.

As a bright note - I myself have seen a very drastic reversal on this issue in the last year or two - I think people are getting a better handle on just how far to push things in the mix world. Given the "indie" nature of a lot of projects these days and the "indie" recording and mixing environments that go along with that - getting your mixes into a room where you can make valid judgements (Where IS the bottom end on this song, how far out front IS the vocal sitting?) has become even more important than in the past.

My bottom line - why would you crush the mix with a cracked L2 plugin on a pro tools - when you can run it through 80 grand worth of fat analog outboard with super clean integration, a tuned environment and an experienced mastering engineer? As has been stated, you can get the same level either way - but it's the nature of the sound comprising that level that really counts. Anyone on the list who has a record they really love - but can't STAND to crank up for fear their ears will fall off from the harsh, biting tone should identify with the above statement. Another thing to consider is mastering EQ - much of the EQing that I do in mastering has nothing to do with the songs themselves - it's to make up for the curves the compressors I use impart based on how they're set etc. Unless a mix is really out there - I find I need very little EQ on most masters, the bottom end being the glaring exception - every project, and I mean EVERY PROJECT - major label or not, that comes in anymore has bottom end issues to some degree - smaller mix rooms, more bass issues, it makes sense.

I'll make one note about the L2 here that I don't think many people think about since it was mentioned. The L2 is a "Maximizer", not a compressor and it is an END STAGE PROCESS when used with ARC engaged. It uses psycho-acoustic (masking in this case) principals to minimize maximization artifacts. The minimization of artifacts is based on the balance of frequencies and their corresponding level in the mix. If you start to tweeze the mix out by adding compression, EQ, reverb - anything really - you will upset that balance and those artifacts will come right to the surface. the amount to which they become noticable is related to 1) how hard you hit the L2 and 2) how much you try to change it afterward. In general - if you hit it lightly (and I mean lightly) - you can do whatever you want with little or no degradation - if you hit it hard in the mix room and then master you're much more likely to get a nice, thin, crispy (bad crispy, not good crispy) harsh, narrow, shallow lifeless master. There are always sonic exceptions - but this holds true for me most of the time.

Ok - I'll quiet up now and put the soapbox away. I look forward to hearing others thoughts on the issue.

Thanks--Steph