[DanDan]

Sorry I don't know how to do the Quote and retort thing properly. I will put DD- in front of my answers.

If that were true, why do the acoustic standards focus on the six octaves that were included and ignore the rest?

DD- I don't understand the 'if'. Do you not accept that the two bass octaves contain enormous amounts of energy, compared to the upper octaves? Challenge my point if you will, but please no inuendo.
I will repeat again. Building Acoustics is focussed on Noise issues, not Tonality. Noise above 4kHz does not often make it through a wall. Below 125 Hz is not measured because the Measurement rooms would be too enormous and thus expensive. Thus we used to expediently ignore those lower and top octaves. This has been changing, modern test standards do measure higher and lower, but the LF Measurement difficulty is unresolved. Audiologists also used and often still use, a similarly restricted spectrum. These are matters of History and there is a need to catch up.

Dan, I already agreed with you that 8 KHz is important, and I wish I had that data. If I do a surface reflectivity test here of concrete versus wood, will you and others accept the result as valid? I have no idea what the result will be! But there's no point in my bothering if you guys will then find something else to object to.

DD- If the 8kHz Octave is important, how can your 'proof' be valid.
Your proposed test has already been rejected. I have proposed a different one. It doesn't require two rooms, but it is unlikely to happen. I reckon anyone who finishes a concrete floor properly will not move on to wood. Concrete sounding warmer, of course.

Quote:
Even when applied correctly in the right space, Sabine calculations rarely come near reality.
Again, I was and still am willing to test materials here. Then I can test pure reflectivity, rather than rely on absorption data from someone else. My fear is I'll go to the trouble to do this, and y'all will some up with some other reasons to dismiss the results.

DD- Reflectivity is not enough to describe how something sounds. This has been repeatedly stated, and thus such a test will not be useful.
The source of all of this is the statement that a concrete floor will sound the same or near enough to wood. Changing horses to just Reflectivity is an extrapolation none of us will accept.

Quote:
So, are we all simply wrong?
I honestly don't know, but it's certainly possible. So far I have seen nothing but opinion. Indeed, for all the talk of "we demand scientific proof" I'm the only person who has actually done that.

DD- Of course it is possible but what are the chances.
You have not provided a 'scientific proof'. I have voided your 'proof' using simple science which you have not challenged. Didn't someone way back run the same numbers and come up with a 3dB difference? Not that I would accept that as a proof either, more of an illustration which happens to agree with trained professional perception and experience. Once again those numbers are not applicable to the subjective experience of hearing a sound. Your foundations are sand.

Tell you what. All of you, not just Dan. Let's devise a practical test that you all agree in advance will be valid, no matter the outcome. It must be practical and possible! Not "Build two rooms" but something that can reasonably be achieved in a day or whatever. Then I'll do it here, and hopefully one or two others will do the same so we can compare results.

Deal?

DD- I proposed a test several posts back. It is a single room. This test was designed by me to be very like a typical EW test which we know and love you for. This is the fist time I have seen you stongly promote a concept without your normal test. It ain't working.
I would love to hear the result of a test, if anyone does it please include the reference music bit. Unfortunately this will probably will never happen.
FWIW I suspect it would go as follows.
The resilient mounting of the wood will diminish VLF a little. The room will be lossy at the lowest frequencies. The same mounting, functioning slightly as a panel trap, will help a little with vertical modes, evening out the response a tad. The acoustically bright finish on the wood will prove nasty and the concrete will be preferred due to being warmer. A rug will appear on the wood floor. ;-)

Best, DD