Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo 
Under similar conditions, many people here probably could not pick out the difference between an SSL and Mackie preamp, or know if an Apogee or Digidesign converter was used on a track. But they sure have definite opinons about them.
snip
And I don't think you're being argumentative. Feel free to continue the discussion. Happy holidays!
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I agree Ethan is not being argumentative, but he is being misguided in his attempt to make a test where the listener is at a complete disadvantage. I could produce a test, too, with random splices between +3 dB at 5 kHz EQ versus flat, and if the loudnesses of the two were matched, it would be EXTREMELY difficult to hear it, because MUSIC changes, it is not constant, and the listener has not been given a comparison between the SAME material repeated two different times in two different ways!
If,however, the source were pink noise, then EVERYONE could hear the difference in the two EQs. I'm not arguing that dither is not subtle, it is, very subtle, but I am feeling that if Ethan were to make a trip to a good mastering studio with good acoustics, one where we exercise these decisions ever day, even he would be shocked at how much more audible the differences are than he currently believes. But it is subtle :-), a lot more subtle than the claims being made on Lynn's forum that Ethan has quoted, so to that extent I agree with Ethan. He just has retorted with a proposed test methodology that is completely invalid!
And since this subtle difference will be extremely difficult to quantify or prove scientifically (been there/done that/already discussed it with one of the most prominent and respected psychoacoustician and dither designers (Bob Stuart)... so this discussion has probably run its course.
BK