Hey, I enjoy this kind of dialogue. Being able to articulate ideas about art is a great exercise and helps me expand my point-of-view.
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Originally Posted by ToneBender67  Whatever planet you are on, in all my years of engineering, I've never heard that. That's not to say I haven't recorded drummers that weren't influenced in some way by Porcaro.
You make very excellent points but truthfully, Porcaro does nothing for me. He's a slick studio drummer who came up with great parts for the song. So did Hal Blaine. I'd much rather have Blaine's career though. Porcaro was definitely not a one trick pony, but neither was Bonzo. |
The key work here is “relative” If you placed there life’s work next to each other Bonham is far less diverse in comparison. My guess is that being in Led Zep did not afford much time to expand JB’s artistic horizons. You can actually do this at allmusic.com
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Originally Posted by ToneBender67 I think it's great the Porcaro could nail Brazilian rhythms, but really that's just replicating something that's already established (albeit very well). Bonham, did dabble into Latin rhythms (also swing, rock, rockabilly, funk, big band, soul, folk as did Porcaro I'm sure) but put his twist on it. You could argue that he didn't want to be bothered mastering those styles (or maybe he didn't have the chops), but taking elements of those styles and molding it into something unique shows more creativity then being able to mimic something accurately/traditionally.
We'll never see eye to eye on this, so all I can say is RIP Bonzo and Porcaro!  |
Hal Blaine is also one of my heroes! What a great musician.
You make some excellent points yourself! And we do see eye –to-eye when it comes to Fool vs. Rosanna. However, I suspect if we could get Bonzo in one room and Porcaro in an adjacent room and asked them to play that shuffle most aficionados would agree that both had tons of chutzpah. I think much of the blandness you hear comes from Toto as a group (icons of that bland LA late 70s and ALL of the 80s radio pop sound) and they way it was produced. As much as I respect JP, I don’t find myself reaching for that Toto CD…ever!
Very few artists invent a new style and all styles of playing have roots in something else. In that sense, 99.9% of artists start by mimicking. The mark of a great artist may be found in the sincere expression his his/her individuality within a style. For use listeners, it’s difficult to catch each player’s personality, their subtlety and the importance of their contribution unless we are knowledgeable in that style ourselves. Claude Monet’s painting may seem "pretty" or bland to some now, but in his day he was banned from many galleries and was thought of as an out of control radical.
Replication is not at the forefront of my mind when I listen to JP. Some of the music he played is boring and bland, but he did far more than mimic. Like any great artist, he became fluent in multiple styles and was able to express his own voice in the context of a given style in order to make an appropriate contribution according to the song/context. This type of work calls for more subtlety. Not that Bonham wasn’t subtle, but he was given to over statement whereas JP was more prone to understatement. I wonder how Bonham would have been as an independent. From what I had read, his personality would have presented a challenge!
Of course we are talking about music where opinions are somewhat subjective. But I have found that distaste for an artist’s work can be chalked up to a lack of historical/cultural background knowledge. I hope that does not sound condescending or like a boring popular point of view, but my experience confirms that there is some truth to that.
For example, I used to be bored by Steve Smith. I only knew him from Journey (a band I neither love nor hate) and few fusak sessions he had done (which I hate). Then I saw Smith do a clinic and got to chat with him after and my opinion changed dramatically. This guy was deep! And he was well versed in styles that I had just started to learn. I had no idea how dynamic and creative he is. Actually, in the clinic he played two Max Roach solo compositions that were basically unaccompanied jazz tunes (head, solo, head). Even though he was “mimicking” Max Roach, I had spent hours listening to Roach’s original recordings and from that familiarity was able to clearly hear Smith’s individuality.
P.S. for hilarious vids poking fun at smooth rock check out
http://www.channel101.com/shows/cancelled.php and scroll down to the “Yacht Rock” series. I think you will like this.